WootBot


quality posts: 14 Private Messages WootBot

Staff

Motor Trend All-Copper Jumper Cables

Wot you say, mate? You gonna get a copper and jump me? Listen, I'm the hardest bloke in Liverpool, and you better be ready to brickbat muh gulliver if you don't want me Spotted Dick jammed down yer... oh, sorry, these are car jumper cables? Okay, fair enough. Cheers.

XterraGuy


quality posts: 5 Private Messages XterraGuy

All copper? Those springs and the pins and the insulation don't look like copper to me! I CRY FOUL!

luke975


quality posts: 13 Private Messages luke975

gmandual


quality posts: 4 Private Messages gmandual

Something looks fishy here.

I thought ALL the Motor Trend cables were Copper Clad Aluminum cables? Which ISN'T an All-copper cable.

CCA cables are generally low grade cables. The ones linked on amazon above are CCA cables. Yet woot has these listed as "All copper cables".

So either they have some true "All copper" cables here, which I didn't think Motortrend made, and if they did this price would be a smoking deal at the price of copper. Or the description and title are completely wrong.

Edit: It could be these are a new All copper version of the much cheaper CCA ones I see everywhere. As the photo's here look a bit different than the cheapo CCA ones. Would be nice if we could get woot to weigh in and clear up the confusion.

manhandsha


quality posts: 33 Private Messages manhandsha

Staff

torrap wrote:25% cheaper on amazon. Solid woot. http://www.amazon.com/Motor-Trend-MTA412-CCA-12-Foot-Extended/dp/B0030D0SVU/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1389056488&sr=1-3&keywords=4-Gauge+12-Foot+jumper+cable



Amazon's looks like a slightly different model: MTA412-CCA. We're offering MTP412.

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gmandual


quality posts: 4 Private Messages gmandual
manhandsha wrote:Amazon's looks like a slightly different model: MTA412-CCA. We're offering MTP412.



Are you sure the ones woot is selling is really "All Copper" and not the CCA (copper clad aluminum) cables?

As far as MTP vs MTA. For Motortrend MTP means parrot clamps, while the MTA is standard clamps.

Edit: I made a call and it appears that MotorTrend cables are made by Northeastern Plastics Inc. And while my supplier doesn't sell the "All copper" ones, Northweastern plastics does list the all copper ones in their catalog:
http://thegoodchoice.com/NPI_Motor_Trend.aspx
So these may very well be the MUCH more expensive all copper ones.

manhandsha


quality posts: 33 Private Messages manhandsha

Staff

gmandual wrote:Are you sure the ones woot is selling is really "All Copper" and not the CCA (copper clad aluminum) cables?

As far as MTP vs MTA. For Motortrend MTP means parrot clamps, while the MTA is standard clamps.

Edit: I made a call and it appears that MotorTrend cables are made by Northeastern Plastics Inc. And while my supplier doesn't sell the "All copper" ones, Northweastern plastics does list the all copper ones in their catalog:
http://thegoodchoice.com/NPI_Motor_Trend.aspx
So these may very well be the MUCH more expensive all copper ones.



I'm thinking they are, but I pinged our buyer to confirm.

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gmandual


quality posts: 4 Private Messages gmandual
manhandsha wrote:I'm thinking they are, but I pinged our buyer to confirm.



Thanks for checking.

Not trying to give you guys a hard time. I just know that Walmart had been listing the cheaper CCA ones with the wrong description of "All copper" for months. And there is a huge difference in the quality of cable when it comes to 100% copper vs copper covered aluminum.

gmandual


quality posts: 4 Private Messages gmandual

For those who are wondering what the big deal is between CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) or true copper cables:

CCA has about 1.5 times the resistance of true copper cable.

Pulling 200amps through a set of 6AWG 16ft copper clad cables (CCA) means you only get ~9.8 volts at car to be started.

Pulling 200amps through a set of 6AWG 16ft 100% copper cables means you get ~11.2 volts at car to be started.

Cars will start at 11volts but at less than 10 you are out of luck.

skou


quality posts: 20 Private Messages skou

Sorry, but these are WEAK at best.

If any of you get a set, look how thick the insulation is, and how thin the copper wire is. 12 volts does not require a lot of insulation, 1/2 MM should be enough. BUT, with the thicker plastic, you think you're getting more copper.

2 gauge, is the SMALLEST I'd suggest for jumping a real car, and 2-0 is ideal. (That reads as 2 aught cable, or 00 cable.) Welding wire is the ONLY thing I'd use, if I was making my own set of jumper cables, and 2-0 gauge, too.

Caveat emptor.

steve

skou


quality posts: 20 Private Messages skou
gmandual wrote:For those who are wondering what the big deal is between CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) or true copper cables:

CCA has about 1.5 times the resistance of true copper cable.

Pulling 200amps through a set of 6AWG 16ft copper clad cables (CCA) means you only get ~9.8 volts at car to be started.

Pulling 200amps through a set of 6AWG 16ft 100% copper cables means you get ~11.2 volts at car to be started.

Cars will start at 11volts but at less than 10 you are out of luck.



That is, if you get the volts at the dead battery, and not some kind of electrical light show.

steve

barrywilliams991


quality posts: 2 Private Messages barrywilliams991
XterraGuy wrote:All copper? Those springs and the pins and the insulation don't look like copper to me! I CRY FOUL!



Good grief! They are all copper where it counts. The biggest problem is that they aren't all that much cheaper than the other places they are available.

barrywilliams991


quality posts: 2 Private Messages barrywilliams991
skou wrote:Sorry, but these are WEAK at best.

If any of you get a set, look how thick the insulation is, and how thin the copper wire is. 12 volts does not require a lot of insulation, 1/2 MM should be enough. BUT, with the thicker plastic, you think you're getting more copper.

2 gauge, is the SMALLEST I'd suggest for jumping a real car, and 2-0 is ideal. (That reads as 2 aught cable, or 00 cable.) Welding wire is the ONLY thing I'd use, if I was making my own set of jumper cables, and 2-0 gauge, too.

Caveat emptor.

steve



Wrong! The insulation DOES matter. Jumper cables see extra tough duty so they need extra insulation. If you think not, take your cables and strip off just enough of the insulation on the positive lead so it makes contact with ground. They will either fry the electrical system of one or both cars or melt.

The only thing that needs to be understood isn't how big they appear but what the load capacity is and the internal resistance. 4 gauge pure copper cables will provide sufficiently low resistance and current carrying capacity to jump any 12 volt automotive or light truck service you can throw at them.

They are overkill for most people. These heavy cables would be more suited to a farm or construction site to start trucks or light tractors.

theco2


quality posts: 50 Private Messages theco2
manhandsha wrote:I'm thinking they are, but I pinged our buyer to confirm.

My hero! ::sigh::


gmandual


quality posts: 4 Private Messages gmandual
skou wrote:Sorry, but these are WEAK at best.

If any of you get a set, look how thick the insulation is, and how thin the copper wire is. 12 volts does not require a lot of insulation, 1/2 MM should be enough. BUT, with the thicker plastic, you think you're getting more copper.

2 gauge, is the SMALLEST I'd suggest for jumping a real car, and 2-0 is ideal. (That reads as 2 aught cable, or 00 cable.) Welding wire is the ONLY thing I'd use, if I was making my own set of jumper cables, and 2-0 gauge, too.

Caveat emptor.

steve



The safety requirements on wire is that the amount of insulation required is based on the
hazards the wire will be exposed to while in use. Insulation on booster cables is extra thick to shield against all the hazards that could potentially pierce the cables. 1 mil would be all that would be required if cable was used in a static/safe environment. But jumper cables get slammed in hoods, walked on, driven on, smashed, etc.

I make cables all the time for farmers, and make huge 40 foot long 2/0 cables. But with most modern vehicles 4awg (real copper) cables are fine because modern starters on most 4 and 6 bangers don't pull that much current.

The hard reality is that in most cases any cable, is better than no cable. If they are long enough. As if even if your cables are too small of gauge to carry the needed current for a cold start it just means that you need to idle longer to allow dead car's battery to charge before attempting to start it.

barney490


quality posts: 0 Private Messages barney490
manhandsha wrote:I'm thinking they are, but I pinged our buyer to confirm.



I am also interested if these use the full copper wire also instead of the cca

agingdragqueen


quality posts: 117 Private Messages agingdragqueen

Staff

manhandsha wrote:I'm thinking they are, but I pinged our buyer to confirm.



Buyer just wrote back after confirming with the vendor! Vendor says: "Yes, the particular jumper cables we are running for this event are all 100% copper-- no CCA at all in this event."


barney490


quality posts: 0 Private Messages barney490
agingdragqueen wrote:Buyer just wrote back after confirming with the vendor! Vendor says: "Yes, the particular jumper cables we are running for this event are all 100% copper-- no CCA at all in this event."



Thx ordering some, can never have enough good jumper cables

barrywilliams991


quality posts: 2 Private Messages barrywilliams991

I found the super hirez photo of these and they show MTP412 stamped on the jacket. I have seen and been engaged in the discussion here about whether they are all copper (some of my comments since deleted).

http://d3gqasl9vmjfd8.cloudfront.net/b6dfa27e-b8b9-44d6-bdfa-488514b28a75.jpg

airspoon


quality posts: 1 Private Messages airspoon

I'd hate to beat a dead horse, but I use CCA jumper cables all of the time and they work just fine. For the average consumer without a huge F350 or Hummer, a small awg cca jumper cable is perfectly fine. There is no point in spending the extra money for pure "OFC" cables("OFC" is a marketing gimmick anyway). I remember when the Motor Trend CCA cables were listed here a month or so ago and one guy threw a hissy-fit, which of course is contagious and other arm-chair experts started to weigh in. I even heard the "skin effect" brought up, as if the skin effect is irrelevant. That is not true, is especially with the relatively high current of today's automotive batteries. The skin effect does indeed come into play, though admittedly on a minor scale -yet it is still valid. For those that don't know, the "dumbed" down explanation of the skin effect is the tendency of electrons to flow on the outside "skin" of the conductor -hence the copper plating. I'm not saying that pure copper cables aren't better than CCA, but I am saying that for the vast majority of consumers who drive average sized vehicles, CCA cables are much more practical -considering the higher cost and minimal benefit of pure copper. So, if you don't drive a Hummer, your best bet would be to go with 4 or 6 awg CCA cables. You won't notice any benefits from the higher prices all copper cables. Unless you drive a small compact car, I wouldn't go with any gauge higher than 6 -and of course, the longer the cables, the smaller the gauge you should get. However, CCA cables are just fine for 99% of the population. With that being said the going price for 4 awg copper cable with an extremely high strand count and ultra flexible jacket (cable guaranteed to be far superior in every way to the cabling in these products), is about $2 per foot (from your neighborhood store) and two pairs of alligator clips will run you about $5. You do the math to decide whether these are a good deal or not based on material composition and quality. If you are really that foolishly concerned about getting only the best jumper cables, it would take less than 10 minutes to make your own out of superior materials for a cheaper cost. Otherwise, go with CCA cables because you likely would never be able to tell the difference.

chayward


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chayward

I rdered two sets 20ft 4AWG of cables. Received both sets of cables today. The insulation on all four red clamps (two on each set of cables)is cracked. All the way up and down the handles. Black clamps are unaffected. Have contacted customers service at Northern Plastics Inc. Anyone else observerd this?

manhandsha


quality posts: 33 Private Messages manhandsha

Staff

chayward wrote:I rdered two sets 20ft 4AWG of cables. Received both sets of cables today. The insulation on all four red clamps (two on each set of cables)is cracked. All the way up and down the handles. Black clamps are unaffected. Have contacted customers service at Northern Plastics Inc. Anyone else observerd this?



Ugh. I'm sorry to hear that; keep us posted on how things go.

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sykl0ps


quality posts: 6 Private Messages sykl0ps

Just checked mine today; same thing here for me on the 20ft 4awg set, disappointing.

edit: well, they're not just cracked the insulation is coming off of the clamps.

here's mine:



chayward wrote:I rdered two sets 20ft 4AWG of cables. Received both sets of cables today. The insulation on all four red clamps (two on each set of cables)is cracked. All the way up and down the handles. Black clamps are unaffected. Have contacted customers service at Northern Plastics Inc. Anyone else observerd this?



drcanak


quality posts: 4 Private Messages drcanak

mine are still showing as pending shipping from FedEx. What gives Woot? It's been over a week since i ordered these cables, and now it doesn't appear as if they've been shipped yet?

manhandsha


quality posts: 33 Private Messages manhandsha

Staff

drcanak wrote:mine are still showing as pending shipping from FedEx. What gives Woot? It's been over a week since i ordered these cables, and now it doesn't appear as if they've been shipped yet?



Hmm.. That is strange; sorry there's no movement on your tracking. Personally I've had a few orders in the last several weeks show up and never get tracked. Just to be on the safe side, I've forwarded your info to CS. Sit tight, we'll get things figured out.

Have a question about your order or account? Click here to contact Woot Member Services.

woot1234


quality posts: 0 Private Messages woot1234
chayward wrote:I rdered two sets 20ft 4AWG of cables. Received both sets of cables today. The insulation on all four red clamps (two on each set of cables)is cracked. All the way up and down the handles. Black clamps are unaffected. Have contacted customers service at Northern Plastics Inc. Anyone else observerd this?


Yes. Both red and black affected on 2 sets of 20 ft 4 gauge cables.

lbdamned


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lbdamned

I also ordered a set of 4 gauge 20 foot (on Jan 9) - tracking number shows no activity, I called FedEx, they say shipper has not provided a package...

emailed Woot twice, no response... based on the recent posts regarding cracked insulation, I'm kind hoping they sold out before my order shipped...

In any event, I either need my product (hopefully not damaged) or a refund. With no response from Woot directly, I felt compelled to post here (before disputing the charge with bank).

manhandsha


quality posts: 33 Private Messages manhandsha

Staff

lbdamned wrote:I also ordered a set of 4 gauge 20 foot (on Jan 9) - tracking number shows no activity, I called FedEx, they say shipper has not provided a package...

emailed Woot twice, no response... based on the recent posts regarding cracked insulation, I'm kind hoping they sold out before my order shipped...

In any event, I either need my product (hopefully not damaged) or a refund. With no response from Woot directly, I felt compelled to post here (before disputing the charge with bank).



I'm sorry you haven't heard back. I've forwarded your info; you should get a response soon.

Have a question about your order or account? Click here to contact Woot Member Services.

barney490


quality posts: 0 Private Messages barney490
chayward wrote:I rdered two sets 20ft 4AWG of cables. Received both sets of cables today. The insulation on all four red clamps (two on each set of cables)is cracked. All the way up and down the handles. Black clamps are unaffected. Have contacted customers service at Northern Plastics Inc. Anyone else observerd this?



mine too both sets i ordered have cracked insulation on the clamps both black and red( must be some defect in how the insulation was applied)
contacted woot several times also no response. very disappointed with this purchase. I think they put one over on woots buyer with these.

agingdragqueen


quality posts: 117 Private Messages agingdragqueen

Staff

barney490 wrote:mine too both sets i ordered have cracked insulation on the clamps both black and red( must be some defect in how the insulation was applied)
contacted woot several times also no response. very disappointed with this purchase. I think they put one over on woots buyer with these.



I'm very sorry about the condition you received those in, I'll ping CS and hopefully we'll be in touch with you soon.


lbdamned


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lbdamned
lbdamned wrote:I also ordered a set of 4 gauge 20 foot (on Jan 9) - tracking number shows no activity, I called FedEx, they say shipper has not provided a package...

emailed Woot twice, no response... based on the recent posts regarding cracked insulation, I'm kind hoping they sold out before my order shipped...

In any event, I either need my product (hopefully not damaged) or a refund. With no response from Woot directly, I felt compelled to post here (before disputing the charge with bank).


update to this issue:

Several attempts to obtain shipping info (or at least clarification of the ghost tracking number that was set) was unsuccessful... I had given up and was ready to dispute charge when low & behold (without notice) the cables arrived today.

To my dismay, mine too have badly cracked insulation on the clamps.

I hate to say it, but this was by far the worst buying experience I've had with Woot (21 orders / 64 items).

I'm not going to bother with returning the cables or contacting manufacture - I've wasted enough time with these things... I plan to wrap the clamp handles with electrical tape and throw them in truck bed toolbox. Pretty discouraging that a brand new set of jumper cables will have repairs as if they were 15 years old.

Buyer beware.

chalion


quality posts: 8 Private Messages chalion

I've also not received these and there's been no update on the shipping information since the 12th. I've contacted customer service just 5 minutes ago to see what's up. From the problems people seem to be having, I may as well just have the order cancelled and the payment refunded.


Recommended signature image size is 5k.

ROGETRAY


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ROGETRAY

Staff

chalion wrote:I've also not received these and there's been no update on the shipping information since the 12th. I've contacted customer service just 5 minutes ago to see what's up. From the problems people seem to be having, I may as well just have the order cancelled and the payment refunded.



I'm sorry to hear that you haven't heard back from your email inquiry.

I've gone ahead and forwarded your inquiry along to Woot Member Services.

Thank you for your continued patience while they attend to the issue.

anyheck


quality posts: 0 Private Messages anyheck

I ordered two sets of the 20' 4ga and the red clamps' insulation is flaking off as shown in the previous photo. Looks like warranty requires sending it to the manufacturer, so forget any savings.

Someone probably didn't degrease the things before they were coated.

I'll probably just wrap them in silicone self amalgamating "rescue tape" and call it a day.

sykl0ps


quality posts: 6 Private Messages sykl0ps

I was just thinking of wrapping mine in tape as well. It's still one hell of a disappointment though, brand new and falling apart. Heavy enough that shipping them back or in for warranty kills the deal.

anyheck wrote:I ordered two sets of the 20' 4ga and the red clamps' insulation is flaking off as shown in the previous photo. Looks like warranty requires sending it to the manufacturer, so forget any savings.

Someone probably didn't degrease the things before they were coated.

I'll probably just wrap them in silicone self amalgamating "rescue tape" and call it a day.



joegraham


quality posts: 0 Private Messages joegraham

Where is my order?

Ordered on 1/9, had anticipated ship of 1/10. Shows shipping information sent to fedex on 1/12, but nothing has changed since then.